All infantry in TY is mechanised...digging in is for wimps...manoeuvrability is where it's at.
The Soviets get two options the BMP-1 or the BMP-2.
And the US...Initially I found these cards a little confusing and it it took me a while to realise Combat Team is the equivalent of a company and not a team, which is still called a team. The U.S. have one option, which is the dated M113. I wonder if we'll see Bradleys in the future.
Unlike the Soviets there's no Integrated AA assets in an Infantry Company (Combat Team)
Infantry now move 8" on foot and their integrated AT need to be getting side shots on Tanks
Over to you guys, thanks for reading
WinnerDave
First impressions, I like this a lot more now, wasn't too impressed with the Tanks, but it seems to have evened out a little, considering how the US seems to have next to nothing compared to the overflow of ATGMs, autocannons and guns on the Soviet BMPs...
ReplyDeleteShould be very interesting as a prospective Soviet player to try to knock out the US tanks without having my own tanks killed and also aim to deal with their infantry without having all my stuff knocked out by said tanks.
Deletethe Points of the soviet Forces are to high. They cost nearly as much as their Veteran enemies, but the BMP1 force is useless against enemy tanks like the M1. With Chopham Armour the have side armour 16, so they can´t to much harm against a main battle tank. Surly they can kill Transport Teams and Support tank Teams like artillery. But the US infantry is a better deal because you get more anti infanry value for your Points.
ReplyDeleteEven a BMP-1's Sagger missile is a threat to an Abrams from the front, never mind the BMP-2's Spandrel, and there's invariably going to be more BMP's than Abrams on the table. Couple that with the generally higher firepower of the BMPs and the organic AA and HMG options and I think that the Soviets stack up pretty nicely.
Delete@Panther-Fan
ReplyDeleteErm... no. First of all, US troops are not Veterans: they are hit on 4+, but hit in assaults on 4+, and things like M113 - only on 5+. So it's not that simple.
In terms of pure numbers things are pretty even. For example, for 21 points US get 3 full Mech Platoons with 12 M-113's and 24 infantry teams in total. Soviets in their turn get full Motor Rifle Company on BMP-1's for 20 points - that's 13 BMP-1's and 22 infantry teams in total.
But Soviets have a great advantage in quality of their weaponry. Yeah, BMP-1 can't penetrate Abrams, but BMP-2 can. And you get 12 BMP-2's and 21 infantry stands with huge variety of weapons for the cost of 3 Abrams.
Plus better Morale is nothing to sniff at. Not only you have large units which can withstand a lot of punishment, you also know that they will fight to the last.
Now this is more like it. From my initial glances it seems that the infantry are much more closely matched, with the Americans having better training, longer range and more accuracy, but the Soviets having better morale more weapons that can fire on the move (which I imagine is going to be a pretty big advantage since they seem to be putting a lot of importance on mobility and movement in this game), and slightly more short-range firepower, as well as more versatility with their integrated MANPADS teams (odd choice in the Strela-3 though, I'd have thought the Igla was more fitting, but maybe we'll see them introduced later on with more high-end Soviet gear). The Soviet transports also seem to have a lot more firepower.
ReplyDeleteThe creeping presence of the 'Red horde' stereotype is a little off-putting, but then it doesn't seem to be quite as bad as I was fearing, they seem to have the lack of skill offset by better morale and being harder to hit, so while they might have a bit of trouble assaulting it seems like they'll stay in the fight for longer. Presumably we'll also see some better trained Soviet infantry when they start putting out things like VDV forces (Battlefront IS putting out a VDV list for this game, right? RIGHT??).
My only real disappointment with these coming rules is that the Soviet infantry can't fire RPO Shmel rockets..
Hang on, four platoons of ITVs? Four? Platoons!? Can we address that, please? Even assuming a platoon is only a pair, which is doubtful, that's a tremendous amount of AT missile action.
ReplyDeleteI must say I like where this is going, the statlines and ratings aren't as generic or pigeonholed as WW2, which I'm liking as it will allow for a lot more subtlety in unit design. Great stuff so far.
Why does all the light AT have such ludicrous ranges?
ReplyDeleteM72, RPG-7 and 18 should only have ranges of 4" tops. Also, AT value on RPG-7 is ridiculous.
We are not talking about WWII panzerfausts here, weapons got better ranges. And remember an M1 has a side armor of 16 vs the RPG-7, so you can equal it on a 1.
Delete500 meters on the RPG 7 seems pretty short compared to the range of an M16 also being 12".
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ReplyDeleteOther than the dragons, what 'thermal sighting' systems are you attributing to the M113 mounted mech infantry company? Surely you are not giving the special rule to anyone other than the dragon teams, right?
ReplyDeleteAnd I can't say I've ever seen a dragon mounted on the M113 itself (as opposed to being carried inside). I guess in theory it is possible, but not sure how you attach it to the .50 mount.
an infantry guy on the FOW forum was in M113s at that time and specifically mentioned Dragons were mounted on his tracks.
DeleteSearch "M175 mount" for the specialist Dragon mounting specifically for the M113
DeleteWell, at least the things that I saw coming but weren't negative for soviet players also became true. While having an armored list can be a headache to play with, having a mechanized list with low cost tank support so you can spend more on your infantry and other support seems a lot more fun.
ReplyDeleteOK...this is great, but I really want to see a card for the Hind or A10!! :)
ReplyDeleteWell, I must say that I am really looking forward to this release. Can't wait to see the support options.
ReplyDeleteI think I have to dig out the old Gen. Hackett(sp?) book.
I wonder if there will be fast mover support. A brace of Tornados should be able to ruin a Soviet armoured column's day.
Well they've already confirmed SU-25s and A-10s being present in the game, so I'd say that's a yes on the fast mover support.
DeleteNow this preview made me much more exited than the last. Soviet Mechanized infantry in BMP-2's seem like a much more solid force than a force made up entirely of T-72's, but I can see their merit as a supporting tank. This might just turn out to be a great combined arms game after all!
ReplyDeleteThanks Winner - interesting preview. As commented above, clearly a lot of thought has gone into this. Excited!
ReplyDeleteI would like to point out that the US mechanized platoons do have integrated AA support in the form of .50 cal AA MG.
ReplyDeleteyeah, not exactly scary though, is it?
DeleteIt has the advantage of providing AA to the platoon even while the infantry is mounted. Even if its not scary its dice being rolled compared to no dice. But its safe to assume that both sides will have either shilka's or vulcans in support, and even in this case assuming both sides are mounted the M113 provides additional dice to the AA effort that the BMP's cannot add unless they are BMP-2's and the air threat is a helicopter.
DeleteHow many points for a BUFF? I only need one. :)
ReplyDeleteI'll let you have a BUFF if I can have a Foxtrot
DeleteProbably about the same points as a Bear costs. :)
DeleteWhere are the US FIM-92 Stinger teams?
ReplyDeleteProbably with the Soviet ATGM teams.
DeleteCome on guys, you have to give us something this week...even just a little tidbit ;)
ReplyDeleteAre there any rumors for the cost of the starter set (assuming there is one)?
ReplyDelete