A few weeks ago I'd heard rumblings of the great Bill Willcox's post on WWPD, and I thought we'd flip it on it's head! What if you give a bunch of slightly inebriated Brits with little to moderate Tournament Experience the brief 'What's the most competitive Late War German Infantry list at 1780 points' what sort of outcomes would you end up with? Well this is that competition.
Below you will find some rather interesting lists from the Breakthrough Assault Team, we'd like you our loyal readers to consider which is the best and let us know on the attached poll, and for bonus points say which person wrote which list.
SS-Kampfgruppe Arnheim FV 1780
SS-Kampfgruppe Arnheim HQ - 2 Cmd Panzerfaust SMG team, 2 Panzerschreck team
Gepanzerte SS-Panzergrenadier Platoon - Cmd Panzerfaust SMG team 6 Panzerfaust MG team
Sicherheits Company (RT allied) - Cmd Panzerknacker Rifle team, 24 Rifle team
SS-Panzer Platoon - 3 Panzer IV
Assault Howitzer Platoon - 3 Assault Howitzer Platoon
SS-Anti-tank Gun Platoon - 3 7.5cm PaK40 gun
Motorised Heavy SS-Artillery Battery - 3 15cm sFH18 howitzer
Light SS-Anti-aircraft Gun Platoon - 3 2cm FlaK38 gun
Why this list works...
- Small elite MG/Faust infantry platoon that you can do some damage with, even tanks are afraid of this platoon.
- Large cheap platoon, brilliant for objective sitting as it'll take a lot to shift them.
- Panzer IV - The Swiss army knife of German tanks a good option.
- StuH-42 - Great for AT gun/Artillery hunting and for digging out infantry.
- AT platoon - Pak40s great ambush unit and for blunting tankovy hordes. In this list they can be combat attached.
- AA guns - Useful for defensive fire, digging out infantry, and of course protection from air.
- Heavy Artillery - The German special rule for artillery, these fellas pack a punch. Able to deal with ANY tank, smoke for your assaults, dig out infantry.
- 7 platoons might seem odd (pun intended), you can still get to 8 platoons by forming a KG. Alternatively you can attach out the AA guns or even AT guns to drop to 6 platoons.
21st Panzer Division Motorised Grenadier Company CV1780
21. Panzergrenadierkompanie HQ - 2 Cmd Panzerfaust SMG team, Kfz 15 field car Motorcycle & Sidecar
21. Panzergrenadier Platoon - Cmd Panzerfaust SMG team 6 MG team
21. Panzergrenadier Platoon - Cmd Panzerfaust SMG team 6 MG team
Major Hans Von Luck in Panzer IV H
21. Gepanzrte Anti-tank Platoon - 4 S307(f) (PaK40) half-track
21. Scout Platoon - 3 Motorcycle MG team
21. Panzer Platoon - 2 Panzer IV H, Captured Sherman III, Captured Firefly VC
Beute StuH Platoon - 4 10.5cm (Sf) 39H
21. Heavy Anti-tank Gun Platoon - 7.5cm PaK40 gun
Rocket Launcher Battery - 15cm NW41
- unusual army list
- 2 Solid MG platoons with a magic faust
- 5 tank platoon, with high AT and smoke
- multiple Pak 40's for defending
- Mobile Breakthrough guns for digging out infantry
Volksgrenadierkompanie (12.) CV 1780
Volksgrenadierkompanie HQ (12.) - 2 Cmd Panzerfaust Assault Rifle team, 1 Sniper team
Volksgrenadier Sturm Platoon (12.) - 5 Panzerfaust Assault Rifle team 2 Panzerfaust MG team 1 Panzerschreck team
Volksgrenadier Schützen Platoon (12.) - 7 Panzerfaust Rifle/MG team
Skorzeny Commando Group - 2 Skorzeny Commando team
Volks Tank-hunter Platoon (12.) - 3 Hetzer
Heavy Assault Howitzer Platoon CT - 2 Sturmtiger
Volks Pioneer Platoon (12.) -1 Cmd Pioneer Panzerfaust Rifle team, Pioneer Supply RSO tractor, 9 Pioneer Panzerfaust Rifle team
Volks Rocket Launcher Battery RT - 3 15cm NW41
Air Support - Sporadic Air Support Me 262 A2a Sturmvogel
- My thoughts were how to take on the tank heavy meta
- the Sturm tigers kill AT guns and top armour two tanks rather easily, and can actually out-range most things that can hurt them, along with the jet bomber.
- All those Vet Panzerfasts should help when up close and personal,
- Nebs are just for smoke to let me get into position to snipe with the Sturms.
- Pioneers help with assaulting dug in infantry/fort companies.
- The Commandos will try to pin reluctant artillery, or deny ambushes etc.
- Its maybe not the very best list, but it has sturmtigers... which are awesome, especially against trained heavy tanks...
Grenadierkompanie Grey Wolf CV1780
Grenadierkompanie HQ - Cmd Panzerfaust SMG team 1 Panzerschreck team
Grenadier Platoon - Cmd Panzerfaust SMG team, 6 Rifle/MG team
Grenadier Platoon - Cmd Panzerfaust SMG team, 6 Rifle/MG team Grenadier Mortar Platoon - 4 8cm GW34 mortar
Looted Panzer Platoon CT - T-70 obr 1943 (captured)
Grenadier Infantry Gun Platoon - 2 15cm sIG33 gun
Grenadier Anti-tank Gun Platoon - 3 7.5cm PaK40 gun
Panzer Platoon - 4 StuG G
Tank-hunter Platoon - 4 Marder III H
Anti-aircraft Gun Platoon - 2 Sd Kfz 10/5 (2cm)
Rocket Launcher Battery - 15cm NW41
Air Support - Sporadic Air Support Ju 87G Stuka
- I believe that Late War Germans, due to the smaller size of their platoons, need the protection afforded by being Veteran.
- I'm not a fan of having a full platoon armed with Panzerfausts as they are very expensive which makes a small army even smaller, and I prefer to have ranged AT to deal with tanks before they reach my lines.
- Defensive Fire for the infantry and one of the best things for this are Pak 40s.
- With smoke it can either be used to blanket the front of an enemy platoon, for which I will use the double template from a platoon of Neb
- For more smoke I like a small platoon on mortars. This has the triple benefit of putting out a single smoke template, also being to fire direct smoke, as well as being a cheap platoon to bolster the armies platoon count
- Every army needs a decent ambushing unit and my unit of choice for this are Marders
- For Big Cats - Heavy Infantry Guns. With their AT 4 in bombardment they have a chance to do more than just scratch their paint, while their 2+ firepower means that whatever fails its save will probably be turned into a burning wreck
- I also take the Stuka for the same reasons. With its AT11 cannon it threatens the heaviest of vehicles while any lighter vehicles don't get a save. Another thing that the Stuka can do is shoot down US AOPs
- I also take a cheap unit of mobile AA guns to hunt down AOP's and Infantry
- Stugs. They are fast enough to do a flank attack while also being able to go in to the front of infantry with their schurzen
- Cheap looted tank platoon for 10th platoon and character
Sperrverband RV 1780
Sperrverband HQ - Cmd SMG team, Warrior 2iC Pioneer Panzerfaust SMG Windgruber, Panzerschreck team
Sperr Pionier Platoon - Cmd Pioneer Panzerfaust SMG team, Pioneer Supply Maultier, 6 Pioneer Rifle/MG teamSperr Platoon - Cmd Panzerfaust SMG team, 4 Rifle/MG team, 2 MG42 HMG
Sperr Platoon - Cmd Panzerfaust SMG team, 4 Rifle/MG team, 2 MG42 HMG
Sperr Mortar Platoon - 4 8cm GW34 mortar
Sperr Anti-tank Gun Platoon - 4 7.5cm PaK40 gun
Sperr Infantry Gun Platoon - 2 15cm sIG33 gun
Veteran Tank-hunter Platoon (CV) - 4 PaK40 auf RSO
Veteran Tank-hunter Platoon (CV) - 4 PaK40 auf RSO
Panzer Anti-aircraft Gun Platoon (CV) - 2 Flakpanzer 38(t)
Luftwaffe Heavy Anti-aircraft Gun Platoon (RT) - 2 8.8cm FlaK36 gun (8 crew)
- 10 Vet platoons
- 8 vet tank hunters
- What more do you need?
SS Westfalen
HQ, 4 Trap Teams, 2 Panzerschreks (60,60,50)
Ersatz SS- Aufklarungs platoon - 7 Panzerfaust Rifle/MG teams (200)
Ersatz SS- Aufklarungs platoon - 7 Panzerfaust Rifle/MG teams (200)
Ersatz SS- Machine Gun Platoon - 2 MG42 HMG
Ersatz SS- Mortar Platoon - 2 8cm GW34 mortar
Ersatz SS- Scout Platoon - 3 Rifle Teams
Ersatz SS- Panzer Platoon - 3 Panzer III N, 1 Panzer IV H
507 Schwere Panzer Platoon - 2 Konigstiger
Volks Light Artillery - 3 FK40
Light Anti-Aircraft Gun Battery - 4 2cm Flak38
- Fausts Everywhere!
- Not a Veteran list - something diffrent
- Everyone loves King Tigers
- Mobility from the Panzers
- lots of support, air, smoke and arty
So there you have it! Which is the winner? and which is Winners? (other lists by Adam, Ben, Matt, Fez and Army Dave)
Zulus rock, fight strelkovy with strelkovy :)
ReplyDeleteScary isn't it!
DeleteThe unteroffizier schule would have been even scarier. :)
DeleteNo Sturm company from Gray wolf?
ReplyDeleteI thought someone else would do it so I didn't do it so would have 6 different lists. But it is a good list
DeleteGuess you can't have them all just seems like a glaring omission. I run the Sturm Company frequently (though rarely in competitions, as I rarely take part in tournaments) and I find there are few lists it can't run with.
DeleteWhat book is the Westfalen out of?
ReplyDeleteBridge at remagen
ReplyDeleteI like the good old Grenadier Company the best. Marders and StuG's together, kick ass!
ReplyDelete21st panzer division, none of the others attack as well due to lack of recce, most of these lists have recce options and for some reason you've not taken them.
ReplyDeleteNot my list.... couldn't have recon and for some reason doesn't auto defend....
DeleteWestfalen is Always Defend AND has recce, though. Why I don't like that one too much is the smallish platoons selected, this would be rolling those fearless ones in no time.
DeleteThankfully all the fearless units have the 2+ enjoy the war - that means they'll never roll 1's right? ;)
ReplyDelete;) Fearless ones (1). Double one's are the norm whenever I have to roll for Company morale with VDH.
DeleteReally? You too? VDH was cursed for me too...I had to get rid of him. Must check in with Robin (the guy I sold him to) to find out if the VDH curse continues in fine form :)
DeleteI hated the rule that you have to take him to get the Faust traps, company morale: Snake-eyes, Pak40 platoon morale re-roll: off he goes with the guns. Only thing he did well for me was the zombies'r'us resurrection. He lifted one time an 88 from the dead three times. ;)
DeleteI'm surprised by how many of these lists have Sporadic Air Support. Air support never seems like a dependable use of points to me, especially in a tournament setting - what are your thoughts here?
ReplyDeleteStrangely I think sporadic air is the best kind of air! You rarely get the chance to use all 7 dice well, and even 5 dice you waste one I find due to maneuvering etc. 3 works wonders as you can threaten units, and also take out the odd AOP, enough dice rolls and a 6 happens
ReplyDeleteWould you like a little more metal content in the best pellet gun ? Absolutely, but for the price, some material cuts are to be expected. I'll go over the various parts in detail a little bit later on in this review.
ReplyDelete